107 Comments

1. I enjoyed your site. Thank you.

2. This world they say is an illusion….a dream. Our thoughts and actions are like threads of a net that we weave around ourselves. A veil has been drawn over our mind’s eye and we live out our lives bound and blind folded. Life, they say is a play of shadows through which most of us sleep walk.Few have awakened from this sleep and have tried to show light to the rest of humanity. They succeeded only partly, passing away, leaving behind empty forms to be distorted and misused by their followers.Holy books, sacred messages, rites and rituals, they say, are mere shells. The spirit within, having long departed, along with the Messenger. These shells and forms are mere signposts for those who seek the formless…..and only the true seeker, they say, will find the Path.

3. Ashodara, your comment describes a typical understanding of mysticism, but one that is incomplete from a Christian perspective. Christian mysticism is grounded in love. It is not harsh but gracious, not judgmental but joyful. It’s not a test to see who’s awake and who remains sleeping; it’s an invitation to come to the banquet, to enter into the intimacy of the Divine Beloved. May we all respond to this call!

4. “As they know themselves to dwell in the world of time and yet to be capable of transcending it, so the Ultimate Reality, they think, inhabits yet inconceivably exceeds all that they know to be — as the soul of the musician controls and exceeds not merely each note of the flowing melody, but also the whole of the symphony in which these cadences must play their part.”

   Evelyn Underhill as quoted by John Titor
   San Fransisco, 1967.

5. That’s a wonderful quote, but considering that Evelyn Underhill died in 1941, I’m not sure what the “San Francisco, 1967″ reference is all about.

6. To have found God and still pursue him is the soul’s “paradox” of love, this scorned by the too easily satisfied religionist person, but justified in the happy experience of “the children of the burning heart” St. Bernard of Clairvaux……This to me is the essence of Christianity the center of it. To KNOW God and enjoy him forever as the Hilderbirge caticism says……The more I know God ,the more I relize how very little I actually know about Him….But the jouney in KNOWING, is a jouney of delight and love for the One who loved me and gave himself for me on the cross……

7. call me a Mystic if you will, but I am not. Only a lover of Gods presence and one who enjoys sitting at His feet, listening to what He has to say about how He loves me.

8. What a great resource your blog is! I wonder why you don’t list Plotinus here? I know he is not strictly speaking a Christian mystic but he does divide the Godhead into 3 and lays the ground work for many many medieval Christian mystics and theologians. I’m linking this list to my blog. Thanks!

9. I’m currently writing a book on Christian mysticism and I know Plotinus will get at least some airtime in it… he is so essential to the tradition. The only reason he’s not listed is, as you surmise, the fact that he’s a Pagan, but anyone who knows Christian mysticism can trace the Plotinian influence (Augustine, Ps-Dionysius, John Scotus Eriugena, The Cloud of Unknowing, John of the Cross, etc. etc.). Glad you like the site; come back, little by little I add to it!

10. What a great blog I have stumbled into. I have recently started blogging and using art as an expression of my spiritual jounery. I have been moving in the direction of Christian Mysticism and I must thank you for a truely inspirational and practically helpful site.

11. What a great resource your blog is, and one that comes at such an appropriate time in my life. I too am exploring ways to integrate blogging into my spriritual development. I also appreciate the discussion on mysticism and Christian thought. Too much of our world today is lacking ANY knowledge of this. Intellectual thought seems to be going the way of the dinosaur. Thanks for giving it a second breath of life!

12. I had an awakening on a chemical i won’t name in college over 10years ago. I was raised a Southern Baptist, and I was a baptised Christian and to this day I consider myself a saved Christian. Building up to that psychdelic experience, I was slipping further and further from God. At that moment when I experienced what I did I knew without a doubt that something way bigger than me existed. I felt God and it was proof to me of his existence. From that point on, my foundation was completely rocked, and I found no person or thing or idea that came close to describng what I knew as a fact until the other day when I accidently was drawn to a strange book in the library. It was written by Vernon Howard and titled Mystic Path to Cosmic Power. From the first page, I read what I knew to be true but always tried to deny because I thought that someone would call me crazy and for a long time i actually thought I was. It was as if he ‘stole my thoughts!’ If I was tasked to write about life and spirituality my words would ahve been so similar it scares me to death. Applying my meager knowledge of Christianty to what he wrote left me in amazement that I had been right all along. I want to ask someone experienced if this particular book is wrong or in some way discounted by Christians that know more than I do. Is says ‘occult science’ on the back of it. How can something that I experienced firsthand and then read be wrong. Does knowing it without learning it make me a mystic? What is the deal here?

13. Glenn, thanks for your message. I’m sorry but I’m not familiar with Vernon Howard’s book so I cannot comment on it (but you’ve gotten me interested in learning more about it!) Your question is not only about mystical experience, but also about how Christians should react to non-Christians who discuss mysticism in their writings or teachings. Many Christians are invested in the idea that “Christianity is the only way to God” and thus attack all non-Christian spiritual experience as either illusory or demonic. But not all Christians feel that way. A century ago an Englishwoman named Evelyn Underhill wrote a wonderful book about mysticism. She believed that Christianity is the best route to God, but not necessarily the only path. More recently, an American mystic named Thomas Merton became very involved in trying to foster dialogue and mutual understanding between Christians and members of other faiths, especially Buddhists: he worked very closely with Thich Nhat Hanh and the Dalai Lama among others, but always remained a faithful Christian himself. Back to your question: if Vernon Howard is described as “occult” he is very likely not a Christian, but that doesn’t mean he is anti-Christian, nor does it mean that his writings might not contain some truth or some merit. If when you read Mr. Howard’s book you find ideas or descriptions that match up with your experience, to me this simply is evidence that there really is a universal, “natural law” of spirituality, just like there is a universal “natural law” of morality. Also, I cannot stress this enough: you are not crazy. Mystical experiences can be profoundly disorienting and can force us to re-think much of what we “know” (i.e., assume) to be true about God, life, the universe, etc. But true, Godly mysticism leads us to a heightened appreciation of the miracles of the universe, the beauty of the Spirit, and most of all, the all-pervasive love of God. As for what other Christians think of Vernon Howard, well, ask five different Christians and you’ll get five different opinions. Ultimately, you do have to trust your own experience. I know you didn’t ask me for advice, but I’m going to offer it anyway: use it or ignore it, as you prefer… my advice would be for you to try to learn more about Christian mysticism. A good place to start is Cynthia Bourgeault’s The Wisdom Way of Knowing or perhaps my own The Aspiring Mystic. For something more intellectual, try the writings of Evelyn Underhill or Thomas Merton, who I mentioned above. Most important of all: pray every day and get in the habit of giving thanks to God for all the little miracles in your life (as well as the big ones, like your experience). That focus on gratitude will take you farther than any book ever can.

14. I am a Christian musician currently living in Canada. Recently I was performing a concert with the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra. It was the last of eight concerts in eight nights and a bond of friendship between the orchestra, conductor, my band and myself had grown over those eight days. On that last evening, we were in the middle of a piece of music I wrote to John of the Cross’ Dark Night, and there was, all of a sudden, what I can only describe as a “unitive” moment. I think everyone was so deeply attending to the music and to each other – we were so “othering” – that for a few moments there was an experience of beauty so profound that it seems to have wounded me. That was several months ago now and I am still a bit of a basket case. It’s like I stayed out too long in the sun and got burnt. Perhaps that is why God remains mercifully hidden. As I try to contemplate what happened to me and what it may mean, I am drawn to contemplate the Trinity and the ontological relationship that God is. Perhaps all experiences of mutual “othering” are grounded in who God is and give us a glimpse into the dignity of humanity created in that image. I’m not quite sure why such an experience is as painful as profound – but there may be some connection to our brokenness there.

    I’m rambling – stumbled on this site and enjoyed poking around. Thanks.

15. Steve, thanks for sharing your story. It reminds me a little bit of the “wounding” I received when I was 16 years old, which you can read about here.

    So when do we get to hear the John of the Cross music?

16. Thanks, Carl, for your fine and much needed work. I am presently doing a Lenten retreat, but also writing a book on non dual consciousness, and our resources amazingly match one another. But why not? How did we lose all of this?

    Keep at it, and many blessings. I gave the retreat at Conyers many years ago, and have great memories of many of the monks.

    rr

17. Thanks, Richard, it’s an honor to have you visit my site. “How did we lose all of this?” Well, that’s the 64 million dollar question. Probably the only more important question is, “How do we restore it (the contemplative tradition) to its rightful place at the center and heart of the Christian community?” I know your work is devoted to this, and I pray that mine can be of some small service as well.

18. I love your site. I’ve bookmarked it and will be returning soon. Don

19. Two men sit by a shallow pool. One man looks into it and sees the sky reflected and exclaims that a universe lies within it. The other man stands up and wades into the water and exclaims that the water is shallow, cool and refreshing.

    It’s fun to be the former, more entertaining and offers greater sums of thought to chew on from day to day but if you cannot dispel the illusion of greater depth you’re only leading yourself and others away from the truth and promoting greater physical torments.

    Mystics are those who overlay inner realities onto the outer world rather than let the outer true reality inform the inner. All things become filtered by their pre-existing metanarrative, all new idioms assimilated and enslaved to unsupported axioms.

    There is a poetry to the world and to human existence that cannot be felt if we are unable to allow ourselves to experience the soaring freedom of ‘inner truth’ but if we are slaves to our imaginations then we may as well be drug takers, madmen, drunkards and fantasists.

    Yes I know all general statements are false but this paradoxical statement neutralizes that concern.

20. A charming story, but incomplete. Actually three people sit by the pool. The first we will call the dogmatic religionist, he’s the one who sees the reflection of the sky and insists what what is only an illusion is real. The second is the dogmatic rational empiricist, who wades in the pool and finds it lovely but shallow. The third is the mystic. He finds the one place where the pool is deep, and dives joyously in.

    I’d encourage you to read Ken Wilber’s Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution to discover why mystics and students of mysticism reject the “flatland” cosmology (i.e., the “shallow pool” perspective in your tale) that is so in vogue with the Richard Dawkins crowd.

21. Definitely, i’ll add you on my blogroll. In my small way also, I’m trying to re-introduce especially to the young blogging generation a lay contemplative sense to living, even as i explore my own path. I’ll certainly draw more strength and inspiration from your site.

    Desertfish
    Philippines

22. I think there are far more mystics alive today, who because of the fear of rejection, will not share their mystical experiences.

    I studied to become a spiritual director at a three year program. It was sad however, because if I had shared my mystical experiences, even though, there have been mystics who had my very own experience, I would have be considered a “wierdo.” So for the sake of trying to be a part of the group, I kept my experiences to myself.

    To be as brief as possible, I had a few mystical experiences that lasted from 12 hours to 3 days.
    The first of which I fell so madly in love with God that I began to experience a literal “fire” in my heart and my head. I think Richard Roll, the mystic has come as close as possible to describing my experience. Also, there are some sufi mystics that speak of the “fire of purification”. When this fire subsided, I saw the world as being completely perfect and connected as one. I saw Christ at the center of all humans and knew we had the potential to be Christ like. The Buddhist describe the as “true nature”.

    I also experienced being as imaculante and holy as Mary. For me, it was as if the historical story of Christ was not just a story, but an experience that all humans can have. The manger where jesus is born is the heart of man, Christ is born in the heart, than matures and learns to die to the ego self, Then each soul works out its soul person and does the work it has come to do, which is to heal the world with their particular gifts and talents. I wish I could express all that was infused into my heart and consciousness, but to write clearly about it is very difficult. In fact, trying to share this a particular spiritual director that was assigned to me caused much damage to myself. She told me that my experiences were strange and a “little crazy.”

    For some reason, I was under the impression that going to a place where there where other spiritual directors who had their own personal experiences was going to be a time and place of celebration. I have since learned differently. Even though I do have a certificate in spiritual direction, I don’t practice. Only occasionally, will I share something small that I think may benefit the person God has sent to me. I was given the name, “Earth Star” during one of my deep experiences. I have since come to believe that we are all Earth Stars, all here to bring the magnificent light of Christ that lays within all of our hearts. The well known Thomas Merton said, “if we could all see each other in oyr true states, we would want to bow down and worship one another”. I understand exactly what he was saying. One day, before I leve this planet, perhaps God will show me the real reason he gave me such deep experiences. God is so close to all of us, closer than the next breath we take.

    Peace, love and blessings to all.

23. Lydia, I’m sorry to hear that you felt you could not be candid in sharing your experience with the spiritual directors you studied with. My first thought is, “not all spiritual directors are closed to such experiences.” I know several, both Catholic and Protestant, who would be quite open to hearing about your journey. My second thought is, “what’s wrong with people thinking you’re weird?” One of the challenges of living a Christ-centered life is that we will often be misunderstood and even rejected for it. I also wonder if there might not be a part of you that, deep down inside, mistrusts your own experience or worries that you might be “crazy” or “weird.” I’m rather of the opinion that the more we trust our own experience, the less attached we will be to what others think of it. As for hoping that God will show you the reason for such deep experiences, you might get some insight from studying the writings of Julian of Norwich: a mystic who had profound experiences, who struggled with trusting her own experience, and who eventually came to realize that she was given such experiences not for her own benefit, but simply so that she — and those who heard of her story — might be inspired to love God more. Also, check out Margery Kempe: a woman who went to Julian for spiritual direction, and whose own dictated autobiography is filled with colorful and at times over-the-top experiences of spiritual ecstasy and mystical encounter with Christ. Margery learned early on that she would be misunderstood for who she was — but she remained so deeply grounded in Christ that she learned to ignore the criticism and calumny of others.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing your own journey with me, and I wish you all the best in finding and responding to your unique call.

24. It was given to me August 2000 at age 55; it is a Grace.

    on that basis God is now known to exist; and ‘I’ am more than previously known.

    we are ALL the children of God, albeit not enough individuals know that yet: the Dalai Lama does not yet know it, for example.

    happy to share more: this subject is absolutely crucial to the future of the human race, sine qua non

    it was mediated by the Holy Ghost and Michael (alias ‘Jesus’) who actually taught that we could have this direct experience: ‘I shall baptise thee with the Holy Ghost”

25. Once, when I was completely awake, the moment exploded into the only reality. This and that were made of the same stuff. It truly is so solid and perfect. Then, God pushed its way through my eyes, blazing through them more than looking through them. While the body moved here and there as God determined, I felt the idea of myself coming out of the shadows into view. As the knowledge of the truth of things became plain I began to fade. Complete realization was so close. But I am afraid of annihilation.

26. Please Pray for the following to Almighty for me.
    Name: Praveen Daniel
    Longing for Spiritual Blessing and Good Relationship with GOD ALMIGHTY
    1. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to have very good relation with GOD
    ALMIGHTY in not committing sin.
    2. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to humble myself lower than dust.
    3. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to have very good faith as universe as is in GOD.
    4. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to have very good Knowledge in communication
    i.e in understanding Bible, Remembering capability, speaking fluently in English i.e in
    American Accent ,very good leadership qualities, Good Command in Q.T.P (this is
    Software functional Tool)with out any stumble.
    5. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to have nice and kind heart for helping JEWS
    People regarding money sake and gathering all the JEWS People to their Home Land.
    6. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to store lots of treasures in heaven.
    7. Pray for me to GOD in order have nice Prophecy Power in preaching gospel and
    Nice healing Power.
    8. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to trust in GOD for his promises with out any
    scare.
    9. Please Pray for me to GOD in order have nice and kind heart for Praying to others.
    10. Please Pray for me to GOD in order eradicate dandruff and fungal infection in my
    scalp.
    11. Please Pray for me to GOD in order to re-growth my hair which was lost all these
    days and that should be stronger and oily than before.
    12. Please Pray for me to GOD ,not to see any disease, not to see medicine and not to
    approach Doctor in my Life by faith.
    13.Please Pray for my country specially i.e in order to Perish all Idols and every body
    should accept Son Of GOD, LORD JESUS CHRIST as his savior.

27. Hi Carl. I see that you are a mystic. I knew a man who was also a Christian Mystic and there were many happy hours of discussion with this man. He was also military. I started the Fort Hood Open Circle and ran it open. I met many fine people Christian, Catholic, all manner of pagan religions and so on but the idea was that it was a safe place to come together and share insights, experiences, ask questions and generally be. Unfortunately when it got to political (due to sponsor and miliutary dog and pony show stuff I chose to leave to enjoy my leanings elsewhere. It was okay. I did what I had agreed to do. But anyway, this is not about all that.

    I just wanted to say that I find the symbolism portrayed in the bible and other works of beliefs are I guess somewhat universal. I believe that universal law is not the same as manmade law (manmade law is so much more restrictive). I just wanted to say that as I was beginning to go through an awakening of sorts I guess you would say I went through years of getting visions and “classes” I can only call them since they have taught me so much. Many of the visions were extremely vivid and unforgettable and when I painted them for my husband he was shocked tht they were so like some similar things written in the various bibles (not sure how many there are ?. One for instance was myself and many others standing on levels of stairs made of marble I guess (white, stone, etc.) and wearing various colored robes and then I had somebody standing next to me that felt like a great warrior dressed in gold armour and a red cloak and wearing a bright sword. He was beautiful. Then I saw a bone man riding across the beautiful crystal clear blue sky on a bone horse (obviously white) and as he passed I saw many folks fall to the ground and turn to ash and some were still standing (obviously me as well) and I was beside myself with joy I was in so much awe of the figure. I pointed to him riding past to others standing around me and shouted that there he was and I asked if he was justice. The warrior standing next to me stated “No, that is judgement. I am justice”. I do not feel that I have had such an inspiring vision since although I continued to have many that were equally brilliant and very meaningful for me. It gave me insight into the human and spiritual condition and has helped me reconcile the two to complement each other rather than fight each other. All this brought understanding and balance. Synchronicity became extremely important and everyday. But like I said, my husband (a long time pagan but one who had been a pentacostal preacher) recognized the symbolism in my visions.

    Understand please. I m a lifelong 54 year old pagan. Never been Christian that knows very little about the bible other than what I have been told and really have studied it very little other than a little in the past couple years. Because of all those visions and the understanding I gained from them I find myself beginning to believe that they are visions perhaps common to folks experiencing awakening.

    I am told by that inner being that the truth remains the same and while it doesn’t change it is still relative to the one experiencing it. Both are right. I am also lead to believe that while all Gods are One, each individual must gravitate towards that which they are prepared to deal with hence the thousand faces of the God. I see the Creator as a beautiful many faceted diamond. Each facet is but an aspect of the whole and each is representative of a way of seeing it all (perhaps a belief system fits in here). I also believe that all things done in love are acceptable and that all things are acceptable in the body of the Creator or it would not be here.

    Now, what I am speculating is that if all these visions and such are pretty Universal and all folks have the capacity to experience them then perhaps the bible and other great works are mans attempt to explain in detail what he has learned from the divine and the heros quest and it is his attempt to bring it back as the “gift” he was given to give to mankind.

    When I went through all the things I did I was given the “gift” I guess you would call it and my purpose was to return it back to mankind. I wrote several books about it all because I had to. I was told to publish them (I self-published one at great expense). I have tried to get the books published and while I am told they are great I am also told that there is not a market for this information. I fail to see that (I obviously see yours getting published and Walsh’s and several others. Did you publish your own and if not then how did you locate the publisher that knew the importance of your works? I may end up being the one that brought back the gift but was unable to get it to the right place until after I die. This to me would be sad because I truly wanted to see it get there (perhaps that is selfish). I just wanted the pleasure of seeing it where it was supposed to be. So….what to do? I am not sure and I am tired right now. I saw your site, felt compelled to comment and write and thank you for offering a place for contemplation. Do you know I do not even remember who the person was that I used to be? I know this person is who I am now but what was I before? Is this what they call rebirth? I think so. I actually got ssome understanding from a man that was a counselor who was strongly Christian and he seemed to understand me and what I was going through. I thought I was losing my mind and in actually I was integrating parts of myself to become. Now I am what I am and cannot even remember what it was to be any different.

    Can you say, have you had similar experiences? Conversation with somebody that has experiences such would be most refreshing and I appreciate your giving me space here. Thank you.

28. wow, I read Lydia’s comments above and discovered somebody who had similar experience as ell. I went through a period of being on fire with a burning that was almost sexual and would not stop. I saw all things as divine and perfect and connected (all things alive and apparently dead). I saw that I was also perfect and sacred as all things are and came to be called the tarnished Christ. Tarnished because I was not what folks expected Christ to be. I had Christians coming to me offering me protection and safety when other Christian would have me dead. I had so many strange experiences and visions and such there are too many to tell, but I made it. Thanks Lydia. You did somewhat confirm that we are never alone in all this hehehe. I even went through a period of being able to smell the rust on a tractor a half a mile away standing by itself in a field. I experience the pain of others and find it difficult to touch them or be near them but I also feel and experience their joy, which is also almost more than I can bear. A few things, just a few and there are others to share it all with

29. FOR CARL – I have read about the Christian mystics, the desert fathers, St John of the Cross, the Flying Monk, St Francis etc… I can’t say I aspire to be a modern day mystic (yet), because I am not exactly sure what that means, but I am interested in finding out more. Your site will help with that. At one point in my walk with God I spent about 2 months praying for him to reteach me everything, to throw out anything that was not true, no matter how ingrained it was in me and my experiences, and to only let me experience truth from then on. It has been a wild journey since then… But I told him, I had to have a reference point, that I could not float around the spiritual realms without an anchor, or I may be decieved, for my mind has not yet been fully renewed. That reference point is the Word. If there is anything in my experiences that goes against the truth found in the Word, I would have to deny it. Otherwise, I could end up ANYWHERE.

    Therefore, before I go too much farther, I have to clarify something. You mention that some of the mystics suggest that Christianity is not the only way to truth. I understand that, truth is right there in front of us every day, Christian or not. But do you believe that truth will always lead us to Christ. And that Christ is the only way to the Father (and here I mean an understanding of forgiveness and the work done on the cross in order to bring us into unity with God). By that I am not suggesting that there is only one way to Christ – after all, God is pretty creative, so he can find all sorts of ways to bring us to Christ. But, before I delve into something that seeminly has no end (that deep part of the pool), I have to know if it lines up with my only reference point, and what I already know to be true – that Christ is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him. Is that a foundational belief of the creators of this site, and (though not really a fair question) is that the understanding of “the mystics” of Christian faith?

    Thank you for your honesty and desire to seek the Lord.

    In love,

    Paul

30. Quick questions-

    I went the Books of Unknowing web site…do you own all those books? Have you read all of them? Where do you put all your books?

    I have this image of you someday being buried alive under all the books you own.

    Liadan

31. Just a rough guesstimate, we probably have somewhere between 2000 and 2500 books in our home. It’s always fluctuating. One wall of our living room has floor to ceiling built in bookcases, with more built in bookcases in our den; plus we have a dozen or so free-standing bookcases scattered throughout the house. Yes, my wife as as much of a bibliophile as I am… I don’t think I own every last book on the Books of Unknowing page, but I suspect I own between 80 – 90% of them. The percentage that I’ve read is lower (but as long as I have eyes I’ll still be reading). Meanwhile, I sure hope I don’t get buried alive under them all.

32. I look forward to checking out your website further. I have been involved in Buddhism for about 8 months or so, but in the last few months I started having some kind of mystical experiences, some of them a bit frightening (kundalini syndrome like stuff, energy flowing up and down my body), so I have been returning somewhat to the Christian roots of my childhood, including prayer (I say the Lord’s Prayer every day and pray for people). It is somewhat difficult as I currently practice both at the moment, and cannot decide which path to take, they both seem to have helped me out, although I know on some level they are contradictory. Intellectually, I’m not sure all of Buddhism is fully satisfying, though, since Buddhism views questions of origins or ultimate purpose, rather abstractly, or not at all.

    The best way I can describe some of the feelings from Buddhism is the vague idea that there is a beautiful holiness all around you in a dreamy mist, it pervades everything including yourself. I am not a meditation expert but I feel like I was starting to touch another dimension of consciousness where time doesn’t matter.

    I did alot of samatha-vipassana meditation, but also cultivation of metta-bhavana (kindness), and tonglen (exchanging suffering with other people). I found these to be very powerful practices to develope empathy and gratitude, and I’m not sure there is a Christian equivalent. In addition, I started a psychological healing process, coupled with a “dark night” or two that was amazing and one that I did not find in the conventional church. I also came to realize my antipathy towards Christianity was just an ego projection, but at the same time, I’m not sure it’s complete in itself. I discovered alot about myself, like deep down I am not a bitter person at all, they are like defilements I am washing off. Like the Bodhisattva Quan Yin, compassion is part of my being.

33. I’m honestly not sure if Christianity is the only path to God. Didn’t Jesus say “Not everyone who comes to me saying, “Lord, Lord” shall be saved?” Might that mean that even some Christians don’t “get it”? It is an interesting question, how pluralistic is God? To my knowledge, this is something only modern theologians, like Process theologians, have explored.

    Also, might there be some flaws in the standard Protestant/Catholic understanding of God, a being seperate from the universe? Contrast this with the Buddhist idea of “interbeing”, which is almost like Star Wars in its feeling, the idea that we are “one with the Force”, connected to each other in a mystical relationship. I have a feeling that there is merit to seeing both views. Too many non-mystics tend to see God as somewhere “up there” and seperate from human beings, even though St. Paul says “There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all”, indicating at least a potentially panentheistic view of God within the Bible.

34. I think that the older I get, the less concerned I become about which path is the “right” or “best” or “only” path to God, to Spirit, to enlightenment, to theosis, to salvation. For one thing, we each have our own unique path. On the other hand, as Krishnamurti so eloquently put it, “truth is a pathless land.” Right and wrong are useful categories when teaching a child that compassion is right and cruelty is wrong, but it seems to me that there are contexts where such either/or thinking stops being useful — and trying to judge one path in relation to another may very well be one of those places. Mysticism is all about paradox, and one of the mystical paradoxes is that there is such a thing as truth and there is a context where true and not-true lose all meaning relative to one another.

    On a more prosaic level, even the Cathechism of the Catholic Church offers a limited positive view of other faiths. It seems to me that Christians who are really, joyously devoted to living the imitation of Christ, sooner or later just stop judging other religions and instead remain devoted to universal principles such as truth, kindness, generosity, hospitality, humility, love, compassion, forgiveness, non-judgment, peace and peacemaking, and so forth. I think this is why some of the most creative Christian mystics of the last century had profound engagement with non-Christian practices: Thomas Merton, Bede Griffiths, Valentin Tomberg, Henri Le Saux. As we move deeper into that place of “judge not,” we are liberated to relate to other faiths with the heart and mind of a loving child, rather than a suspicious adult. Which ties in nicely with Jesus’ exhortation to “become as little children.”

35. Sometimes I am still focused on trying to find the “right way”, I think that’s part of the spiritual path. Sometimes I feel it is like walking a tightrope. I actually feel pulled by two different religious traditions.

    Months ago I had been working with biofeedback alot, particularly heart breathing and meditating, doing it for several hours on this particular day, and I listened to a Buddhist hymn to Avalokiteshvara/Quan Yin, just sitting silently almost meditating, I got a feeling of unearthly love and compassion. This love was not lust, it was far different, it was like a profound intimacy and identification, almost “non-duality”. I felt like I was becomming a conduit or vehicle for something beyond myself, and I had an unusual sensation around my chest for days afterwards, it was a light feeling in my chest, it felt like love but it was an un-attached love, selfless, and there was a feeling that a huge burden had been lifted from me. My pulse actually permanently dropped ten points, too (i checked my blood pressure and kept rechecking it), and it hasn’t gone up since.

    Months later I had a dark night of the soul and had been more open to my Christian roots, a realization I came to after meditation. I picked up the Bible, read Jesus words, and it’s like they touched me in a way that they hadn’t in years and I felt a very similar feeling of love. I started praying every day saying the Lord’s Prayer or using an Anglican Rosary, even when I felt down, I would feel this mysterious loving presence.

    So what is going on? Am I hysterical and just channeling some kind of inner hysteria, or is there some kind of absolute reality in both experiences? If I had to choose between these two experiences, which was real, and which was not, they both felt very real, and they both felt mystical. Yet if you talked to many Christians, you shouldn’t be able to “get” anything positive out of another religion, right?

36. Yes, but the same Christians who say “you shouldn’t get anything positive out of other religions” often also say you shouldn’t meditate, period. Their hostility to Sufism or Zen or Vedanta is mirrored by hostility toward orthodox Christian mysticism. So I wouldn’t put a lot of energy into trying to conform my live to their expectations.

    You might enjoy reading Ken Wilber, esp. “A Brief History of Everything” or “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution.” Wilber has done a lot of good work in the arena of integrating science and spirituality, as well as bringing eastern and western mysticism together. It might shed a lot of light onto the beauty of your experiences. Bless you on your path.

37. Often feel empty!nothing is worth anything to me.sometimes i feel it was a mistake to be living.all that men take pleasure in,do not count somuch to me,going to church or other spiritual getherings.But one strenge thing is that i’m always want to see more value to my existance.Reaching out to many,but still confused in which it could be done!Teach me! I need to learn!

38. Zhyon, the first step must be to take care of the body before taking care of the mind and the soul. To feel empty, nothing, could be a sign of spiritual awakening but could also be a sign of depression (lack of serotonin and other “happy chemicals” in the brain). Feeling like it is a mistake to be living also suggests depression rather than spiritual awakening. I’m not a doctor and I cannot diagnose you, which means you must see a doctor as soon as possible and be honest in discussing your feelings. There is help available for you if you are depressed. If you are depressed, once you have that under treatment, you will be more available to begin serious exploration of spiritual issues.
    Whether or not you are depressed, you also need to be making sure you are getting adequate amounts of sleep, rest, and exercise, and you also need to be eating a healthy, balanced, nutritious diet. All of this is foundational to any spiritual practice. If you have any questions about any of this, talk to your doctor.
    Once you have taken good care of your body’s basic needs, this quest to give more value and meaning to your life — a very noble and praiseworthy quest — could take you in many possible directions, that may or may not include church or other forms of organized religion. One good place to begin is to develop a meditation practice. If your religion is important to you, looking for a teacher who can teach you meditation within the culture of your faith is important. Otherwise, non-sectarian forms of meditation like TM or Shambhala training (which do not require you to ‘believe’ anything, but just do the meditation) can be a good place to start. Meditation does not provide “answers” to your mind in a direct way, but rather creates a spaciousness within yourself where you can begin to explore your own spiritual dimension and find some answers that way.

    Good luck to you, and thanks for writing!

39. [...] Mystics « The Website of Unknowing [...]

40. I read your list of mystics with interest. As a catechist, DRE and student of spirituality I like to see what other folks with similar perspectives are interested in. Call it figures within a landscape. Something I did note is that Peace Pilgrim is not
    included in your 20th Century list. She’s really worth getting to know. I love your site!

41. Mystics would never describe themselves as anything special – we all want to love God and allow God to love us. Mysticism has no magic or hidden knowledge, we just have to allow God to be God and allow ourselves to be fully open to him.

42. Mark — I couldn’t have said it better myself.

43. BTW Carl, I should have said before that you have a great site and a wonderful resource here. Thank you!

44. How dare you imply that the good saints are known as ‘mystics’.
    Here is the definition of a mystic according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
    1: of or relating to mysteries or esoteric rites : occult
    2: of or relating to mysticism or mystics
    3a: mysterious b: obscure , enigmatic c: inducing a feeling of awe or wonder d: having magical properties

    The very Holy Bible denotes that the use of magic is evil. And, the word ‘mystics’ in itself is devided into 2 meanings: mystery and magic

    God is a mystery, because God is God.
    God is not magic, because God is not evil.

    The very word ‘mystic’ divides one’s conscious mind from believing in the mystery of God through faith by apply the suggesting that it is only magic.

    The saints NEVER used magic. Jesus Christ NEVER used magic.
    Therefor, they (as well as God) are NOT forms of magic.

    If you read your very Holy Bible, you will see that magic is a tool used by evildoers. Magic and mysticism are related to such things as tarot cards, ouija boards and seances… which are all tools that actually help the Devil and not God.

    Please reconsider your titling on saints, they’ve been martyred enough for their faith in Jesus Christ and you blaspheme God’s good name by painting more blood onto the saints by referring to them as mystics.

    Magic was used in ancient times in a variety of ways to worship false gods.
    Such as: human sacrifices, idolizing gold statues etc., communication with the dead.
    The saints as well as Jesus Christ, did NOT do this, it is written:
    Ephesians 1:3-5
    3 Blessed BE the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly PLACES in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

    In other words, blessings are in no way considered evil or ‘magical’ or of a ‘mystic’ faction. The saints acted on their faith in Jesus Christ and many were martyred because of the iniquities of others. These saints were CHOSEN by Jesus Christ through God the Father to be persecuted for the mission according to Jesus Christ. Saints did NOT perform magic at all, nor did they perform mystical practices. It is more respectable to believe that they obeyed by conviction in the mystery of Jesus Christ. However, it is more blasphemous to convict them who poored their very blood for our salvation by labelling them as ‘mystics’.

    Do not confuse God’s power with the word magic. God is NOT a mystic and neither is Jesus Christ.

    Ephesians 4:11-16
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 That we HENCEFORTH be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, AND cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, EVEN Christ:
    16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    And so, you see, love is NOT magic, the love of Christ and God the Father is a great mystery, one that is worth pursuing the attain the knowledge of.

    I would sincerely appreciate it if you retitled this page appropriately if you are taking on a responsibility to define what a christian is, and/or what a saint is.
    You lied about St. Paul and St. John… Two very well and righteous saints of their time who’s words still echoe for today and eternity for the love of Christ. Please do not call them mystics… please read the definition of ‘mystic’ before you slander good names according to the Book of Life.

    You are not helping anyone by lying to people and slandering saints because you have lack of knowledge on truth, and you do not know the truth because you do not know Jesus Christ. I will pray for you brother.

    If any of you want to actually read the Holy Bible, you will find the Word of God and the Word of God shows that the Wisdom of God is not a ‘mystical’ thing… mystical portains to magic, and magic portains to evil. To be respectable to the Father in Heaven, and his Son, Jesus Christ and to all the saints within the body of Christ, please refer to them as their true nature: saints

    - Daniel

45. Daniel, you have grossly misrepresented mysticism in your comments, and then you use aggressive language (calling me a liar and a blasphemer, for example) to try to shore up your lack of knowledge of the subject you are commenting on. I would strongly suggest you become familiar with the work of Christian scholars such as Bernard McGinn, Louis Bouyer, Evelyn Underhill, Robert Davis Hughes III, not to mention renowned Christian mystics such as Thomas Merton, St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, Julian of Norwich, Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, Meister Eckhart, Gregory of Nyssa… the list could go on and on. NONE of these authors promote magic, and ALL of them understand the difference between mysticism and magic — a distinction that is lost on you, because you base your entire concept of mysticism on one poorly worded dictionary definition. Perhaps you need to begin by reading William Countryman’s The Mystical Way in the Fourth Gospel or Fr. George Maloney’s The Mystery of Christ in You: The Mystical Vision of Saint Paul. These two books reveal how well-respected Bible scholars have long considered St. Paul and St. John to be the first Christian mystics. Please do not comment again if you are going to continue using inflammatory and aggressive language. If you wish to calmly explain why you think the words “mystic” and “mysticism” are inappropriate, that’s fine. But trying to conflate mysticism and magic is a non-starter. Just because the Merriam-Webster dictionary confuses the two terms doesn’t give the argument any historical or etymological credence. Christian mysticism has a clear understanding of the difference between mysticism and magic. You would do well to spend less time posting attacking comments on websites and instead do your homework.

46. Goodday from Australia
    Today we are burning. Bushfires have claimed nearly 200 people and caused a nation to mourn and dig deep to feel the meaning of what is happening.
    Thanks for this blog.
    I have been observing my journey of faith for 66 years.
    I am a Catholic but I now enjoy reflecting on the Wisdom of the Ages and Religions. All this reflection shores up a spirit of profound gratitude for the everyday miracles of my life.
    There are so many things I could say , but let me conclude for now wishing this blog ‘godspped’
    It is Web Church

47. I am quite far away from the bushfires and like you all my knowledge is gained from the media.
    One of the facets that I notice about the reports is the awful (shock and awe) noise that accompanies the fire and wind.
    And then the eery silence or no noise. It seems to me there is a difference. Silence is positive, life giving and the carpet on which we rest our weary souls and get in touch with our inner self. The eery silence when the bushfire has passed is something quite different. It is emptying, and frightening and eery.

48. For Sound we have two words;

    Music

    Noise

    For Silence

    only one Silence

    Do you have another word for silence post bushfires or post bombing etc?

49. I know that this may be off topic, but I thought I might ask hee a question about Thomas Merton. I seem to recall, although I could be mistaken as my memories are hazy on the matter, that Merton relates a story in which a gathering of the faiths occurs and where the dogmatists argue and debate with each other but when the mystics meet they smile at each other knowingly and sit is peaceful repose.

    Where is that story?

50. You should have Joan of Arc on your list of mystics. You can find complete information about her at http://www.maidofheaven.com

51. Thanks, Emily. My list is literary in nature, so there are several folks — not only Joan of Arc, but also Rose of Lima or Bernadette Soubirous — who were renowned as mystics, but didn’t leave their own mystical writings, so they’re not included.

52. Re. Looking: I’m sorry, but I can’t place that story about Merton. I’ll ask a friend of mine who is a Merton scholar. Meanwhile, does anyone else know?

53. I believe this is the story…………..

    The contemplative mysticism that is permeating evangelicalism is a bridge to the New Age. It has been called the “Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality” (Tilden Edwards, Spiritual Friends, p. 18).

    In a 2005 interview Tony Campolo said:

    “I got to meet the head of the Franciscan order. I met him in Washington. He said let me tell you an interesting story. He told me about one of their gatherings, where they bring the brothers of the Franciscan order together for a time of fellowship. About eight years ago they held it in Thailand and out of courtesy, they really felt they needed to show some graciousness to the Buddhists, because they were in a Buddhist country. So they got Buddhist theologians together and Franciscan theologians together and sent them off for three days to talk and see if they could find common ground. They also took Buddhist and Franciscan monastics and sent them off together to pray with each other. On the fourth day they all reassembled. The theologians were fighting with each other, arguing with each other, contending there was no common ground between them. The monastics that had gone off praying together, came back hugging each other. IN A MYSTICAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, THERE IS A COMING TOGETHER OF PEOPLE WHERE THEOLOGY IS LEFT BEHIND AND IN THIS SPIRITUALITY THEY FOUND A COMMONALITY” (“On Evangelicals and Interfaith Cooperation,” Cross Currents, Spring 2005).

    Mystical experience is exalted over doctrine and is seen as a key to radical ecumenical and interfaith unity. But if you turn your back to Bible doctrine and try to reach beyond it through mysticism, you are entering the realm of spiritual delusion with no sure light to lighten your path.

54. Thanks, Michael, for the Tony Campolo quote. Your final paragraph suggests to me that you missed the point of it pretty much entirely. Let’s assume that Jesus wants us to convert the Buddhists (I am not persuaded that he does, but I know many Christians do believe this, so I’m willing to go with it for the sake of argument). Are we more likely to convert the Buddhists by arguing with them and “showing them how they’re wrong,” or by loving them — our neighbors — as ourselves, and out of that sense of love and mutual respect, engage in vulnerable and open dialogue which would then allow the Holy Spirit to convert their hearts?

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Similarly, evangelizing the world needs to emerge from a place of deep, profound love and respect for those with whom we disagree.

    Nowhere does the mystical ability to connect with people of other faiths imply a necessary repudiation of the Gospel. The fact that, in the story you quote, the monks were able to embrace one another while the theologians merely argued is, I think, most telling. And the fact that you assume the monks have “exalted” mystical experience “over doctrine” is really just a statement about your prejudice against mysticism. Is it possible to exalt experience over doctrine? Yes. Does it necessarily follow that mystics ignore doctrine? No. And that’s an important distinction that most critics of mysticism miss. It is not logical to reject something like mysticism simply because it gets abused by some people. By that logic, we should shut down the pharmaceutical industry.

55. Carl
    What I wrote was a total quote, there was nothing of my view in that at all.
    The site requested when this episode happened. I quoted.

    I am totally convinced of the reality and good health of mysticism.
    In today’s busy world mysticism is a key to unlocking the reality and meaning of Christ’s presence with us and in us.Christ is the natural inbetween in our daily relationships. It takes but a moment of quiet in any situation to realise this folow of energy and our ability to connect with it.

    Doctrine (insight) flows from this experience .

    • Michael, thanks for the clarification, and I hope you didn’t take offense at my rather spirited reply (some would say attack) to your earlier post. I must say, based on the genial and thoughtful comments you’ve posted in the past, I was surprised at this coming from your pen! Well, my spirited rebuttal ought to be directed at whomever it was you were quoting, rather than you.

56. Carl
    Thanks for the very quick reply.
    To live a virtuous life, is my desire. I am happy when I am vituous.
    This virtue is not sustainable through my own efforts. I know that too much from experience.
    All to often I allow thoughts, desires etc to occupy my mind and they are destructive of who I really am.
    The idea of conversion really interests me. When I was young I had the aspiration of baptising the whole world. Not forcibly, but actually.
    Now my idea of conversion (ie turning people to God) is much more centred ‘see how much they love each other’
    I say the our father and credo everyday and pray for more insight into their meaning.
    In short a fundamental plank of humanity is mysticism.
    All religions have their mystics. What wisdom is there to be had.

57. Good morning from Australia.
    Yesterday I was at a music festival . The people were ‘older’ and possessed of a lot of experience. It was Sunday, and it was a great way to ‘rest’ .
    i was able to rest in the moment and listen to many cries from the heart from the various musicians…cries about love, hope, ecology. I saw the situation as proving me with seeds for contemplation

58. Carl,
    A few years ago you invited me as a friend through Myspace. Now I find it amusing since I have become such a fan of your site. There is some spiritual movement happening in our world, I think. Many of us are being drawn by the spirit into the contemplative dimension of our faith. Perhaps we should revisit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin’s The Divine Milieu. Briefly, I was going through a period of mystical moments of connectivity and dreams a while back. I had one dream about passing a church while I was going into a building next to it. It was the middle of the night but I was drawn into the church. Once inside I found it to be maybe half full. A mass was in progress but it didn’t have a time structure to it. At some point it was revealed to me that this was the eternal Mass that never ceases. It flows like a river. It had a connection, for me, of Jesus’ promise of a river of living water flowing from our belly (center). It was a joyful thing for me to discover that this Mass goes on, quietly and nearly in secret yet cannot be stopped. Also, there was a undeniable presence of Love there. The dream was very real and has stayed with me. Thought I would share. Thanks for an inspiring place you’ve created. Grace and Peace.

59. Thanks, Jon. And thanks for sharing your lovely dream. I’m sure you’re familiar with Teilhard’s wonderful essay “The Mass of the World,” which is what your dream reminded me of. If you’re near Atlanta, you might enjoy the upcoming weekend retreat on Teilhard at the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA; March 27-29, 2009. The presenter of the retreat is Louis Savary, author of Teilhard De Chardin’s The Divine Milieu Explained: A Spirituality for the 21st Century. If you can’t make the retreat, the book itself looks pretty good! Anyway, thanks for your comment and stay in touch.

60. That is an uplifting story.
    We are spititual people. It is our essence. yet we are material people. In our world we have all the trappings of materialism and the ‘good life’ that it generates. There is always a feeling that this is temporary and we are often hubgry for spirituality. We seem to able to consume as much spitituality as we can get our hands on. I know I am not expressing myself well, here, ‘consuming’ etc are not very spiritual words.
    What i am trying to say, is that I am trying very hard to unlock the reeal me in my life.
    I know that Jesus and me walk together but I am trying to actualise this .

    Michael

61. Thanks for finding the story. I had thought I had heard a different version of it back in 1998 relating to Thomas Merton. I could have misheard, or it could be an apocryphal story that has gone through many incarnations. Either way, it is a good story.

62. I must say that this is a marvelous site and I appreciate the chance to present an idea on your blog.
    After speaking at several conferences and meetings of universities and organizations that deal in science, religion and consciousness, I found they have great hope that one day, the secret to the so-called mystical state would somehow be discovered. Perhaps we have overlooked … the obvious! In his book titled “Science and the Modern World,” Alfred North Whitehead wrote, “Familiar things happen and mankind does not bother about them. It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious.” Whitehead was not alone in this idea. Hegel said that because it’s familiar, a thing remains unknown. George Bernard Shaw gave us this: “No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.” Most of us overlook the importance of analyzing familiar things, obvious things and things already known to us. We have numerous exampes of this one of which is Benjamin Franklin gaining the insight to consider there may be a hidden power in lighting. He saw what countless others did not see, and electricity was born. The psychologist Gustav Ichheiser said that nothing evades our attention as persistenly as that which is taken for granted. Lightning was taken for granted and who before thought it could wield such a wonderful gift for the human race. In the realm of consciousness, each of us can analyze something we already known: our thoughts and our thinking. That specifically is not a new idea, but analyzing what thoughts have in common and sticking with that question, can yield that most important of all insights — the gift of mystical insight. Mystical insight is the onset of the mystical state which has been called higher consciousness and, of course, ultimate reality. When we are very young, we take our thinking for granted and simply go on with our lives without further care. Aldous Huxley wrote, “Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.” If we consider all this carefully, we see there is a firm and most solid foundation for analyzing our thoughts. But where does science and religion enter into this picture? Science asks questions. Religion provides faith. If we use science by asking questions about what is familiar to us, namely our thoughts and our thinking, and we have faith, we will, in time, gain the insight that will elevate our souls. When we ask a question and have faith, eventually an answer may arrive. There is a nexus here. The nexus is insight. Over the years in our life’s experience, we should have noticed that a question segues to an answer. Yes, the nexus is that sudden gift of insight that provides the answer. I also commented on another of your blogs with the same above commentary.

    Respectfully,

    Emmanuel J. Karavousanos
    EKaravousa@aol.com

63. Carl,

    I’m sure someone has asked this before but where’s Origen in your list? I’m a beginner when it comes to reading the Mystics but I’ve always thought that Origen would have been included in a list of Christian mystical writers.

    Grace & peace,
    Andrew Tatum

64. For that matter, where is Richard Rolle or Gregory of Nyssa or Symeon the New Theologian? One of the problems of picking an arbitrary number of mystics to mention (in this case, 40) is that inevitably, some really important and valuable figures wouldn’t make the cut. Yes, the work of Origen is very important, but I think the writings of his most celebrated “mystical successor” — Evagrius — are far more accessible to aspiring contemplatives today.

65. Carl,

    Touche! Even though I’ve missed Origen on this list, I’ve found this list and your entire website (which Mike Morrell, our mutual friend, recommended to me) extremely helpful and edifying as I am becoming more and more interested in the mystics and in incorporating some of their insights into my own spiritual journey. SO while your list may be arbitrary, there are a number of folks on who are entirely “new” to me which makes me ever more excited!

    Grace & peace,
    A.T.

66. I have previously placed a comment on your blog, but did not see a reply. I have recently prepared an abstract in connection with a presentation I expect to be giving at the Science and Nonduality conference which is scheduled for October. A part sponsor is the University of Arizona which is well known in the realm of consciousness. Below is the required (no more than 300 words) abstract that presents a preliminary view of what mysticism is and how to attain it.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Emmanuel J. Karavousanos

    ABSTRACT

    NONDUALITY BREAKTHROUGH: A logical explanation of why the mystical experience, the onset of the mystical state occurs, and how it can be attained through analysis of familiar, obvious and known things.

    Nonduality, ultimate reality and the mystical state are one and the same. In the East, it is Nirvana and Brahman. How and why does this phenomenon occur?

    The mystical experience, the precursor to the mystical state takes place when one analyzes familiar, obvious and already known things, things the ordinary mind accepts, takes for granted and ignores. The basis is in Heraclitus, Huxley, Whitehead and others. Whitehead wrote, “Familiar things happen and mankind does not bother about them. It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious.” Aldous Huxley, much like psychologist Ichheiser offered that most humans have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.

    As children we learn that we think. The thinking process becomes a “familiar thing” that is obvious, constant, taken for granted and ignored. Goethe and historian James Harvey Robinson stressed that we must think about our thoughts. The paths mystics followed with their “unusual minds” focused (unconsciously perhaps) on what others took for granted and discounted completely.

    To become enlightened, the Buddha held that we must be in the right frame of mind. Richard Maurice Bucke wrote that to receive the “exalted endowment” one must have the right mental attitude. The right mental attitude is developing the curiosity of the “unusual mind.” Thus, self-discipline is needed to analyze “familiar things” – thoughts! This presentation will provide cases of discoveries made through analysis of things already known. Through examples on consciousness we will realize science and religion – contrary to the belief they oppose each other — work together. We will hear key questions that will trigger mystical insight to anyone in “the right frame of mind.”

    With the foundation provided by the brilliant people mentioned above, we can, individually and collectively, test and aspire for that healthy mentality.

    Emmanuel J. Karavousanos

67. I have read and reread your posting.
    Yes we are so busy with being busy that the realo world passes us by.
    Our bodies are perpetually in contact familiar things, we see things without effort, we touch and feel, we eat and breathe: I could go on and on. it is our mind that is away with the fairies.
    there is duality , mind and body.
    I think the secret of being a spiritaul person is aligning body and mind.
    The bodt per se is in the present, but the mind is either in the past or future. The present is unfamiliar ground.
    In todays letter to the Corinthians St Paul says..” Now is the accetable time, Now is the day of salvation.
    Now; I try to bring my mind to see and acknowdge the familiar things. I try to pay attention to my fingers typing, my eyes reading etc.
    Sometimes we view Mysticism as an added extra. It is not ; it is at heart of the ordinary.
    Good luck with your conference.

68. Greetings. I have, throughout my life, described myself as a nazirite, but moreover, I have been a seeker of the truth,and my definition of truth is quite rigid. There are not Many Truths, as some beleive, and the truth is not reliant on what you and I perceive. If truth is,indeed truth, then it is truth for all. Here is truth which I have found, and want to share. Most people look outside of themselves for proof or evidence of the existence of God, when, in fact, the greatest evidence lies within. and it is written: “God is inside of you, his light shines from out of your eyes.” and this leads us to the keys to heaven and hell which Yeshuah revealed to Peter. When we fail to recognize this, we are left with the false teaching which turns our minds outward,beleiving ourselves to be separate, praying to the sky as if God is somehow suspended above us. when these are the outward actions which Jesus disdained as being “vain”. Instead, He directed us to go to our private room (the head) and pray to the father in secret, that he will reward us openly. Conventional christianity is rife with dogma, which tends to close the mind, which in turn makes one judgmental. There are many clues which are overlooked in seeking the real man who was crucified, because of this same dogma and close mindedness. I consider myself a mystic, because of the fact that many peices of the puzzle have been opened to my eyes, I seek the truth, which reveals “mysteries”, and has nothing at all to do with magic as one person suggested. For that person, specifically, read again the nativity, and when it comes to the part about the Magi, who came to see the child. Magi is the root word of Magic, then consider that judgment belongs only to God and is not for our poor minds to understand.

69. Hi David, thanks for your post. I would recommend you take a long and unhurried look in the mirror.

70. It has always seemed to me that each single solitary soul on planet earth can attain not only a higher level of intellect, but a far, far wiser mind. The so-called mystical mind is attainable — if we ever choose to analyze … what we already know! There are many things we do know, but much of this so-called knowledge is subjective. It is incomplete. Perhaps one day we may all recognize that it is only through insight — INSIGHT — that a more mature, level-headed mind can be attained. We read this last sentence and mull it over for an instant, then we drop it and move on. That, of course, is the way we function and we have little control over it. This is coupled with ignorance (I do not mean this in a consdescending way). We intellectualize, but fail to look in the direction that can lead us to the greater self that is within each of us. We pray and ask others to pray for us (as one reader here has done), something that simply boggles my mind. This is a classic example of how we ignore what is familiar, obvious and known to us. I’ve written and spoken about analysis of familiar, obvious and known things which has a basis in a number of prominent names. It has a most solid, very well-based foundation for reaching the so-called mystical state of mind; there is no greater gift that that. It is attained by focusing on things already known to us. Crazy? Doesn’t make sense? Perhaps, but in time, if lucky, we discover this to be so, so true.

71. Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity.

72. To teach the “triple truth” — a generous heart, kind speech and a life of service and compassion — is easy to profess, but…one of the more difficult things for us to recognize in life is that advice, however noble, wholesome and potentially enriching, is only reality to the GIVER of that advice. Advice must, must, must arrive as an insight. Advice is easy for one to give, but the giver must see that his/her advice must be realized from within by the receiver of that advice. The gift of insight is what must first be learned before advice can become a truth and a reality. Here it is suggested that the gift of insight is what must first be learned before advice can become a reality. THIS TOO IS ADVICE THAT MUST BE REALIZED AS AN INSIGHT FROM WITHIN.

73. Why doesnt god help everyone who asks?

74. Amy
    “Why doesnt god help everyone who asks?”
    Just suppose that God gave us all that we asked for? Where would it stop.
    Where would the invitation to deepen our humanity and spitituality be.

75. It is difficult to believe that after eons of human history, we still believe in a god with human characteristics. If a god we must have, let him be an attainable state of mind — the mystical experience or ultimate reality. It is there where we know oneness — oneness of mind, universe and God. It is a gift like no other. Most fail to ever discover this higher state because of that most unknown requirement — analysis of familiar, obvious and known things. This is from Alfred North Whitehead, Kahlil Gibran, George Bernard Shaw, Aldous Huxley, Arthur Koestler, Heraclitus and others. The Bhagavad Gita agrees. The psychologist Gustav Ichheiser wrote that “Nothing evades our attention as persistently as that which is taken for granted.” Sadly, we ignore things we know and things that are already obvious to us.

76. Hi Emmanuel,
    you love to help by teaching others, you are a very good public speaker, all great gifts from God. We thank you for your efforts.

    Please all don’t forget the obvious that Emmanuel emphasizes.
    A mysticist wrote in a poem/prayer of thanking God…
    “Poems are rough notations for the music we ARE”.
    This inner communication with God is obviously not always perfect or complete.
    Evil and sin is the noise that many times overwhelms and prohibits us to listen to the divine music that God imprinted within us.

    May the Love of God be always clear to you.

77. Akis,
    Before you get too deep into God, you have to experience him or her or it. Note that I do not use a capital to identify that so-called supreme being. Actually, when one attains the higher state of mind — the mystical state — one realizes that God (I use the capital here) is, in fact, nothing more than an attainable state of mind. It is ultimate reality where the universe is recognized as also being God and God is the universe. They are one and the same. The individual mind merges with the universe and that things we call God — the higher state — and the three become one. One experiences a beauty unlike any other. One begins to see that religion looks too high, philosophy too far and psychology too deep for the answer to the mystical state. I have said before that Alfred North Whitehead wrote the following in his book, Science and the Modern World: “Familiar things happen and mankind does not bother about them. It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious.” Similarly, Hegel wrote: “Because it’s familiar, a thing remains unknown.” There are a number of others I can quote, but those will suffice. One day we will see that science and religion are not antagonist and that, in fact, that are not unlike a question and an answer which have insight as their nexus. I will be speaking at the Science and Nonduality Conference (See it on Internet) which is sponsored in part by the U. of Arizona and will be held in San Raphael, CA. At that conference I will explain not only HOW to attain the higher state, but WHY it occurs.

78. God Bless You for all your help to our people who stuggle with so many material attachments. Your guidance is appreciated. A return to prayer!

79. God abandoned me, killed my brother, father and mother and left me with no family
    God hurts people and could choose to help but doesn’t
    It is hard to understand why he makes some people suffer so and gives so much to others, not very charitable

80. Karen, I am sorry to hear of your pain. Reading your post, I am reminded that God is Love.
    It has been my experience that, while it is tempting to do so, blaming others (even Love) for my suffering doesn’t help. It has also been my experience that Love always stands ready to offer me hope and solace, as soon as I am ready to receive it.

    I wish you peace.

    I’ve written a longer response to your message here: http://anamchara.com/2009/11/13/suffering/ I hope you’ll read it and please share with me any thoughts you have.

81. [...] Christian Mysticism [...]

82. Thanks for your site. I love the words of Evelyn Underhill. I am trying to do something similar on my site but have been very distracted. I am wondering why your “list” is restricted to Western authors only. The richness of the tradition is shared with our Eastern bretheren and indeed with the mystical traditions of the non-Christian world. Shalom. Rob

83. Thanks, Rob. My focus on western/Christian mysticism is not meant to be any kind of judgment on eastern or non-Christian wisdom traditions or voices. Rather, it simply reflects my own interest and knowledge. I’m an autodidact, and I work full time, so it takes all my energy just to keep this site functioning as a Christian resource. I do have a number of recommended “world mysticism” titles on these pages: http://anamchara.com/books/ and http://anamchara.com/mystics/formation/bibliomystic/

84. [...] Mystics « The Website of Unknowing [...]

85. Carl,

    From reading your Bio I see that you recently joined a church. I hope you found a kindered spirit there. I think that is want I need to do. I have had religious experiences and have worked to travel the mystical path for many years. My experience has led me to an unbounded image of God and while I can see the advantages of joining a Christian Church, the little image of God bothers me. When I hear someone say God is just the creator, or just love, or just an idea, I hear a white blood cell telling the body how to act, or a point defining infinity. I live in eastern Tennesse, near Knoxville, and would like to know if you are aware of someone I could contact. It is time to come out of the wilderness.

86. Ron, I would suggest that the point behind joining a church is not to find people we agree with, who think like we do, or who have something clever and intelligent to say to us. The point behind joining a church is to learn better how to love our neighbor as ourselves. Given where you are and the tone of your message, I would encourage you to explore a variety of churches, including the Episcopal and Quaker communities. The important thing is to find a community to love. If no one has anything to teach you, then consider how you might be able to teach others. If freedom of thought is absolutely essential for you, then be sure to look at the Unitarians. Many blessings to you.

87. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I didn’t consider the Episcopal church, maybe that is the place. I tried the Unitarian church. The people were wonderful but the experience was hollow for me. Thanks again. Perhaps my place is just around the corner.
    May God give you a giant hug.

88. To all of you who have written on this blog so far:

    Does it not occur to us that all “mysticism” is not the same? I came back today from hearing a conference on Christian/catholic mysticism. It spoke of the dark night of the soul and its place in the path of union with God. However, in making her points, the speaker used Buddist quotes. Does this not seem problamatic given that the aims of Christianity and Buddhaism are not the same. In the former the idea is a union with God understood as intimately connected with His creation and yet distinct from it. He is the creator. In the latter, God is that ultimate reality of consciousness behind the illusionary material world. God is not really a being per say in the Eastern non-Christian traditions. He is not a creator because all of what we see created is a part of the divine whole. Having read throught this site, I get the impression that several feel that somehow it is all the same. Why do we persist in that way? Is it not disrespectful to both traditions to insist they are saying the same thing when they are not?

    Respectfully

    Guido

89. [...] Christian Mysticism [...]

90. Very good question, Guido. You can see my answer here.

91. If I might jump in. I completely agree with you that these paths are separate with separate goals. I believe that God created paths for those that follow their heart, and those that follow their will, intellect, conciousness, and creativity. For our hearts we have the son of God, who we can love unconditionally. For our wills we have God the father and his code. The awakened followers of conciousness have their immanent spirit and the intellects a transendent spirit. Lastly, the artistic have God the lover. Each of these have their own rules and goals, but all seek God and all should be given respect. I am a Christian by nature and cannot became a warrior or Buddhist, but I realize that it takes all of us to define mankind.

    In the Hindu tradition there are many paths to God. They have the five Yoga traditions, each a path. Bhakti Yoga, the path of love a devotion, is the closest to Christianity. There are other paths, however, a path of deeds, intellect etc. I have begun to study their history. They probably figured this out a long time ago.

92. Guido
    Hello all,

    I see my last writing generated a lot of discussion.

    I have some thoughts as well.

    My point was not that we cannot learn from other traditions. My point is what we are learning there and where it is leading us. It seems to me that in most of the above reponses, we are again taking Buddism and readapting it to a Christian perspective.

    At the point that we begin to speak of God as some type of conscious intelligence that feels and wills and interacts as a personal being, at that point we are reflecting a Christian bias. Incidentally, it is a Muslim and Jewish one as well. At least as far as the major world religions go.

    It has been suggested that what only appears to be a difference really is not because mystery of God is beyond us.

    In Eastern Christianity there is the understanding that God is so big, we cannot say conclusively what God is, we can only say what He is not. One of the corollaries of that is that God cannot be anything other than God. Therefore, while much of God is mysterious, there is the illumination that God IS a being that thinks, feels and wills. It is into the depths of God’s personhood that we are called into relationship with yet as a distinct creation. It is for this reason, that St. Gregory of Palamas sought to make the distinction between the essence of God and the energies of God. Philosophically, we relate to God through His energies but experience this relationally as God’s personhood, which is beautiful…

    But to the Buddist, Chrisitans are under the illusion that God is a being that we love. If that suits us, they say, well than so be it. It makes no difference to them because at some point they figure Christians will finally get it that God is not personal but that we are all little sparks of the divine that will coalesce into one, depending on where we are in our Karma.

    But to one who acknowledges a level of personhood to God as a being, than anything that says other wise does not resonnate.

    It has been suggested that God, the personal being who creates and wills, created Buddhism for Buddhists. Which means that as a personal being, God created a religion that denies the existence of God as a being. Rather, it encourages its adherents to ultimately become God as part of the collecive unconsciousness.

    My point is that oil and water do not mix. If we opt for one or the other, then we have our reasons. But we will at some point have to come to terms that these do not mix.

    I gather from the responses I have read, that most if not all adhere to a belif that God is a conscious being. If we are to truly become Buddist, we will have to surrender that.

    That is my point.

    For example, while East and West both teach us about detachment from things that cause suffering, the reason why is critically important. In the East detachment is orientated from a freedom of things that cause pain and lead us beyond the illusions of time and space to literally one day reclaim what is believed to the divine in all of us.

    In the west, Chrisitianity in particular, detachment is also taught as a cause of suffering but it is because we have become attached to the wrong things-things other than God. What we need is attachment to is His love, love from a being that thinks, feels and wills. The goal is to relate in union with this being, yet DISTINCT from this being.

    We come to understand that God is love because God knows our darkness, the things we do not like to look at or accept, and yet wants to embrace us. At the same time, He does not dismiss the darkness. It must be accounted for. Again, at this point speaking specifically of Christianity, the idea is that we cannot make up for our misdeeds because of the darkness within. Only God can take that darkness away through Himself. He does this when we recognize our state before and come to Him on that basis. That is the basis of the cross and the resurrection through Christ. This is the basis of God’s love.

    I realize not all can accept this. But we have to be clear on what we are accepting or rejecting. We cannot hijack Eastern religious thought to serve our own presuppositions. Eastern thought, taken on its own, as it should be if we are to adhere to it, will not allow that.

    Neither will God as a being.

    So, we can learn about other faiths. I certainly did and still add to that knowledge. But we have to honest about what we are learning and where that learning was designed to go, which is not to the same end.

    Respectfully,

    Guido A. Gonzalez, Jr.

93. Good Day Guido,

    I would like to put a little different spin on this topic. The way Buddhism was explained to me is that the goal is happiness, whereas the goal of Christanity is salvation. However, Buddhist aren’t the only ones with this goal. Many philosophers believe happiness is the greatest good. In my opinion this goal is neither Eastern nor Western, but the goal of those who study conciousness. Those who want to wake up and be happy.

    I was told that Buddhism came out of Hinduism where God is not just the creator. God is acting out the universe. Everyone and everything is God, but like a good actor, God denies his own identity and pretends to be you. The Buddhist wants to wake up and realize (in a real way) that he is God playing and be happy. It is our role to deny this with every fiber of our being, and we do. This path is true and necessary.

    Christianity seeks salvation. Salvation from the pain of loving. From watching your child die of disease, or your land conquered by human monsters. I am in pain because I care, because I love someone or something. God created a path for me to heal this love, that I might love without condition. You are right, I am separate, because love needs an object. I am a thing and am absolutely necessary. In mathematics all dimensions are infinite, but you need a point to have a reference frame, a set of axes. I am that point to God’s infinity. I shalt love God as I was commanded and he will save me. This is the beautiful way of the heart. This path is also true and necessary.

    Ron

94. Guido,

    The answer is both. Christian and Eastern mysticism are very different when you use words and try to understand it in the mind. They are the same (or at least similar) when you feel it and understand it in your heart.

    Sri Aurobindo said:
    “The Divine Being [Brahman] is at once impersonal and personal: it is an
    Existence and the origin and foundation of all truths, forces, powers, existences, but it is also the one transcendent Conscious Being and All-Person of whom all conscious beings are the selves and personalities; for He is their highest Self [soul] and the universal indwelling Presence.”

95. Carl,

    Thank you for all the wonderful insights and discussions on this site. I am new to blogging, please feel free to check out my blog site as well at http://jdpater.wordpress.com/ called “Mind of a Mendicant Marine”

    I welcome everyone’s comments and look forward to sharing a spiritual journey with many kindred souls.

    Peace,
    jdp

96. [...] Mystics « The Website of Unknowing [...]

97. A number of months ago I was lieing in bed and I felt compelled to turn on my light and write. My journey has taken form within poetry and find companionship within the words of many of the “mystic” poets of all traditions. I just stumped upon this blog tonight and read through many of the posting and am thankfully to have been able to hear of others experiences. I would like to share also some of my experience.

    Thankyou,

    Jonathan

    Too many find comfort divided into sections.
    Someone asked me,
    “What religion are you, what denomination?”
    I said, I walk upon the wall that separates,
    so I may not be defined nor confined to small spaces;
    plus the view is better up here,
    all lines have been erased
    and you can see for miles
    all boundaries displaced.

    All faiths lead the way to light,
    but only if love is man’s devotion.
    As the buffalo follow the elephants
    and the zebras follow the oxen
    all in search of water.

    Mystic messages
    Poetic utterances
    The dervish spin
    To the way of the Tao
    Sitting Zen
    In silent illumination
    Buddha laughs with a tear
    Jesus cries in joyous cheer
    Divine musings
    Sing and sing
    To the sound of:
    The Bhagavad Gita
    AUM
    The alpha and omega
    is here

98. Just this day, I found this web site. I noticed that 2 or 3 people on here are familiar with Vernon Howard. It is a remarkable story of how I became familiar with his books, tapes, etc. If anyone on here knows of Vernon Howard, and his writings, I would be most interested in communicating with them.

99. I have studied Vernon Howard’s book called “The Mystic Path to Cosmic Power” for many years and use it as a textbook in my Spiritual Myticism classes.. There is no difference in Mysticism between any Religions or Philosphies.. We speak the same language.. But, as Jesus said;’ ” You must have eyes to see and ears to hear”…. Therefore, I combine all Mystical Knowledge on my blog as they all lead to the end of the false ego and the Realization of Divine Unity………..namaste, thomas

100. [...] Christian Mysticism [...]

101. Hi Carl (and all)

     I’m new to this site, I am now reading The Big Book of Christian Mysticism and am enjoying it. I have a question…

     Having read some of Bernadette Roberts’s books (Path to No-Self, Experience of No-Self, and What is Self?) I noticed that she doesn’t figure very prominently in your suggested reading pages. I am not finished with the book (The Big Book…) but I believe I’ve read therein of Union being the “final stage” on a mystics path – which Roberts argues is a developmental stage prior to No-Self. She also speaks about the problem (in her opinion) that all the writings of the mystics end at this stage( with the exception, to some extent, of Meister Eckhart and some from other traditions) and ignore the following and final stage, that of No-Self.

     I’m curious if you, Carl, or other readers here have any opinions on this topic- either on Bernadette Roberts, or of Union being (or not being) the ultimate destination on “the path”. Thanks for your thoughts – I’m enjoying the book and many of the comments on this site.

     Leigh

102. P.S. Actually, in reference to my first post, I should have said I haven’t found any reference to B. Roberts, instead of “doesn’t figure very prominently” . Thanks, Leigh

     • Leigh, I’m simply not familiar with Bernadette Roberts, which is the only reason she’s not included in the book. I have to admit that I find this idea of “no-self” as being beyond union to be rather idiosyncratic. And if she’s using this to put down most of the mystics of the Christian tradition, I have to wonder what’s really driving her. Sounds like an ego-trip, frankly. But since I have not read her works, I must insist that this is nothing more than a provisional opinion based on the small amount of information you’ve provided; if and when I read her work, I may have a considerably different impression of it!

103. Hi Carl,

     Thanks so much for your response, I didn’t expect it so quickly!

     I am in the middle of your book (The Big Book) and have just started to read the material on your website, so I am not thoroughly versed on your viewpoint, ideas, etc. I’d like to say, though, that it wasn’t a criticism of your work that it didn’t reference Roberts – but I was curious if you were either 1) unfamiliar with her work, or 2) familiar with it, but not a fan.

     Her name comes up fairly often these days, but even though she’s Christian (Catholic, and a former nun) she may be more popular among people who are interested in non-dual teaching, Advaita, etc…I have found her books very thought provoking and interesting, although I must say that I’ve sometimes found her style of describing her perspective quite irritating as well. If you ever chose to read one of her books, I would recommend “The Experience of No-Self”.

     I’ve never had the feeling, when reading Roberts’s stuff, that she was putting down other Christian Mystics…I get the sense that she believes some didn’t reach that stage, and others did reach it but didn’t write about it. In “Experience of No-Self” she says

     I have always been of the opinion that John of the Cross, with the Spanish Inqui-
     sition breathing down his neck, failed to give us the full story. We know that his
     writings were left incomplete. (p119)

     and later says, about Eckhart:

     As I read Eckhart, I read of one who has made the journey and crossed over.
     Yet, I also understand he was so outspoken about what he learned beyond
     the breakthrough that he eventually incurred the censure of the Church. (p205)

     +++++++++++++++++

     I also read a pretty good interview with her describing her journey/experience:
     http://www.spiritualteachers.org/b_roberts_interview.htm

     Thanks again for your response, I’m enjoying your book and appreciate the suggested reading portion- several of the books were available at our library, so I’m looking forward to reading them as well.

     Leigh

104. [...] Christian Mysticism [...]

105. I haven’t been on this site for sometime now. My journey since I last wrote has taken me back to the big city. Previously I lived in Austin, Tx. Now, living in Los Angeles, my contemplative demeanor has changed. The city pulls at you and it is difficult to find connection. I also feel a change in the times. Perhaps it is just my circumstances but I don’t think so entirely. I feel that we are moving quickly into a time when we must make a stronger commitment to transform, to surrender. There is a chaotic energy in the air. I think Merton would have a thing or two to say about this. My contemplative practice is strained. I only know a couple of people here who are contemplative. Carl, do you have any thoughts on this? I’ve been following Richard Rohr’s work more lately and feel that he is one of the most noteworthy voices out there today in terms of transformation and awareness. You yourself are doing great work on this site. Thank you for keeping it up. We are in dire need of contemplative expression and encouragement now. Be well and be blessed.